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What are the Chances.......

I don't disagree that China is a Totalitarian Dictatorship that has done terrible things. But the USA has done a terrible job of handling this virus and so has my country. I am saying now is not the time for political bitching. Now is the time for us to pull together and fight this virus with the best science we can come up with now to save lives. The fact that today China came clean today about the death count in Wuhan shows they know now they must be transparent about Covid-19. You can be sure they did it because they realized that if found out later the news would so infuriate the Chinese people that they could be forced out of power. I am well aware of how the Chinese government operates and their motivations.

No one has commented on Taiwan CDC referred to in my post above. A free and open democratic country that is doing things different than us and they are working and going to school with under 395 cases 23.7 million in mostly densely populated cities. Taiwan is formed from the Capitalists that fled China because of the Communist Revolution and is very much an ally of the USA. The USA support is probably the only reason China has not invaded them. The Taiwan USA relationship is very strong. So not some opaque Asian country where we can't believe the news or government websites.

By comparison my country and yours lied to the public about masks helping stop transmission in the population to preserve the masks for the medical workers. Now it is mandatory in New York to wear a mask in public. This is the same kind of lying the Chinese did about the number of deaths in Wuhan that that just came clean on. They know the best course of action right now is to be transparent. These are lies made by governments trying say what they think will bring the best result in the crisis. Both my country and yours did this during the Second World War. Everything was censored and false information was distributed by the government trying to keep the war effort on track.

What I am saying is stop the negative political stuff right now and put the energy of the country to solving the problem Scientifically. Remember science the discipline that uses experimental technique to come to a conclusion that can be proved to be correct. The same discipline used to develop fireworks effects.

Masks reduce transmission of the virus - Sectoring off - Isolating active cases - temperature and covid testing testing - Social isolation ( the only one a large portion of the population are doing in Canada and the USA now) all work. This can be proven by science. we need to start doing this. Surgical masks are very simple to make, A big manufacturing company if directed could build an automated production line to make them really fast if ordered to do so.

Mask up everyone - sector off - test and isolate and then we all kick this viruses ass and get back to work.
 
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You can't do anything about the past it is only the future you can Change.

Are we going to not recognize the best way to defeat the virus because of all this political negativity.
 
Blaster said:
NY added over 1,000 deaths to their virus totals in a single day because anyone who had died at-home, and was taken directly to the morgue, for the weeks before suddenly became Covid19 deaths (no heart attacks, strokes, asthma , or any other sudden illnesses caused a death during that time period)...
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I think if you dig into this a bit, you'll find this is incorrect, they subtracted the average numbers from the observed numbers and inferred that the increase was COVID-19 related.
 
BigTopCanada said:
You can't do anything about the past it is only the future you can Change.

Are we going to not recognize the best way to defeat the virus because of all this political negativity.
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We can walk and chew gum at the same time. As I said the vaccines and antibodies are already in clinical testing.
I think you may be confusing political bitching with accountability. Do you think the Chinese would have revised the numbers if someone wasn't calling BS.
Do you think their revised number is accurate, or perhaps just an appeasement? Sorry I have no trust in that country. They're culture values "saving face" over the truth. Always have, and always will.
 
@ BIGTOPCANADA
I agree with a lot of what you are saying Big top Canada. Now is not time for all the political BS.
It is sad that people/the world can't put their petty little differences aside, stop arguing and blaming others for everything, stop being so Irate and down right hateful to each other and all come together to try and work toward the same common goal getting this virus under control as much as possible with as little casualties as possible.
But no. The Government leaders of the world will never let a good crisis go to waste to try and achieve some politcal agenda.

Also @ BIGTOPCANDA
You also said "when you get to know people all over the world you see everyone for the most part is the same. We all want to take care of our family friends and community and country"
I definitely know what you mean by this. Although I have never been to China, I have been to Taiwan, Thailand, Vietnam and Japan many times and have seen first hand what you are talking about. I would actually go one step further to say "in my experience", people from these countries treat each other with a lot more respect, kindness and acceptance/tolerance to others with a different opinion then those in the US.
Again, just my opinion based off my personal experience on that though.
 
wrtiii said:
I think if you dig into this a bit, you'll find this is incorrect, they subtracted the average numbers from the observed numbers and inferred that the increase was COVID-19 related.
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Well that might well be true, I did not dig into the story I heard on the NYC news channels, just that there were now So Many deaths newly attributed with their new calculations. But, this is certainly no time to asses what the "average numbers" would be for Anything ;)

NY now has a track record of exaggerations with their own needs, the 40K ventilators they absolutely HAD to have from the rest of the country, the ship they they HAD to have to support the overflowing hospitals. Hard to trust anything the State whines about needing today (and there's no end to NYC's Gimme - Gimme - Gimme entitlement)

It's also my understanding, again from the NYC news channels, that the requirements for mask wearing are only in areas where proper "social distancing" can't be maintained...
 
I think it's really hard right now to be objective in assessing what's going on, especially when so many "expert" opinions are aired constantly as though they were facts, and many of the "experts" are anything but. A doctor, or nurse, who is not an epidemiologist is not an expert. Someone with a Nobel prize in physics or economics is not an expert. No online or TV talking head is an expert. Dr. Oz is not an expert (he's a surgeon, not an epidemiologist or virologist). No politician is an expert. No CEO is an expert.

The true experts are drowned out because their message continues to be we don't know yet and that doesn't generate revenue. Are people who recover immune? If so, what percentage of them, and for how long? Will we be able to develop a vaccine that works and does not give you the disease? Will this new virus behave like measles (we develop a vaccine and it works essentially forever), influenza (steady mutations, so we develop a range of vaccines every year and they help but don't make you completely immune), or HIV (fast mutations, no vaccine)? Will we figure out an effective treatment that does not have really bad side effects like attacking your liver, and is inexpensive enough that we can produce it as needed? What will the final death rate be once we can test everybody and know how widely it has spread? The answer to all of these is we don't know, and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. But we demand answers now, so charlatans step in and provide them.

There are a few things we do know for sure: Emergency room staff in the "hot spot" areas are overwhelmed, exhausted and afraid for themselves and their own families. Distancing reduces transmission. Masks reduce transmission (maybe only by 10% for homemade masks, but for something that spreads exponentially, that's a very significant amount). Personally, when I read about emergency room and ICU doctors saying "We need many more ventilators for me to be able to put all my patients on one who I think need it," I'm not inclined to argue.
 
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Yes Blaster I agree with you I wouldn't believe much of what comes out of China all the news is smiling and shaking hands. I realize the degree of propaganda machine there. The Chinese did spit out this information not because of anything an American or any other country did but because they're afraid of their own people right now. You can probably walk chew gum and piss off the Chinese at the same time. What good is this doing for us now if anything it'll make it worse. I am certainly not one to often say I approve of what politicians are doing. But this morning our prime minister was asked about the issue with the Chinese releasing the death count from Wuhan. His answer was my job right now is to do everything I can to try and get what we need to save people's lives. There will be plenty of time after this is done for investigating what happened and bringing people to account and that will happen but this is not the time for it now
 
Also looks like the Korean people will be going to baseball games starting at the beginning of May Americans will not. Maybe if we started focussing on what really needs to be done instead of politics we could be like them open up our society again
 
This complaining about New York State and the things that they have done while trying to save lives is unbelievable. Maybe you should look at the guy at the top that did nothing and allowed everybody to get sick to the degree that they did. Even the republican-leaning media is backing off on giving him air time because they can see all he's doing is covering his ass and has not been effective at containing in the pandemic. Maybe the American government needs to be held to account for how the badly they've screwed this up I'm all the lives that has cost. I am also unimpressed with the way our government is handled this. But once again no point in talking about this until we're done pulling together and getting healthy again
 
BigTopCanada said:
Also looks like the Korean people will be going to baseball games starting at the beginning of May Americans will not. Maybe if we started focussing on what really needs to be done instead of politics we could be like them open up our society again
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Yes - perhaps if we pollute our cities to the point people have to wear masks on a regular basis to breathe, we could avoid the spread of viruses because we wouldn't have to scramble for masks. We can learn so much from these other countries.

Unfortunately our relatively clean air, and the freedoms American's enjoy, with the ability, desire, and at times necessity to travel extensively work against us in these situations. Government can only do so much. There is an old saying in America, "give me liberty or give me death" . The natives are already getting restless and starting to object to these stay at home orders. It will get worse as time passes. Our constitution protects our liberty and right to assemble. Governments restricting those rights are starting to face legal challenges. The Kansas Governor had to sue the legislature to maintain an order that prevented gatherings of more than 10 people at churches on Easter. A few weeks ago, our President talked about the possibility of restricting travel to states that were considered hot spots. The NY Governor said he didn't think that was legal and would sue. Americans have paid a hefty price to protect our liberties and freedoms over the years. We may pay another hefty bill before this is over.
Our system is far from perfect, but it continues to astonish me that as much as it is criticized, people from around the world still want to come here and often risk life and limb to do so.
 
Hey Pyroblaster I read your your post carefully can you tell me was there a statement in there that I missed that was describing anything that might save some lives or do you just not care about the people who died from covid-19 I understand that's one of the best features about American society is the way people sue each other
 
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Oh and by the way I live in a country that people all over the world want to come as well but I don't think I'm going to make it better by having more people die
 
Iceland tested everybody in the country and showed that two-thirds of Corona cases are you nonsymptomatic. So uncontrolled all those people walk around spreading it and no one knows
 
Wow. I opened a can of worms.

Canada .you sound like you have personal interest in defending China. I personally know many of the people here. I have shot fireworks with them on several cases. Can you give us some details on who you are?
The Chinese fake numbers are clear. Simply look at how they suddenly dropped. There should be a gradual drop off.
Now look at the virus. I am not a conspiracy freak but come on. There is a lab in woohan investigating Coronavirusses in bats. Then this appears less than 800 meters from the lab and it's not involved? If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck it's probably a horse.
 
Yes you can look at my company bigtopfireworks.ca I'm an importer of display fireworks from China and no I'm not defending China I'm saying now is not the time to be dealing in politics when we have more important things to do like saving lives. I don't think anybody created this virus on purpose. So why would there not be a lab in Wuhan investigating Corona virus in bats? There is pretty clear DNA evidence of the virus that it mutated to bats before mutating to another animal. The theory that China created this or that the US Military started it it Wuhan are both crazy Xenophobic Ideas. I see both of them as fake news.
I doubt there is 1 piece of solid evidence for either of these theories. When did news become just something someone said instead of fact checked information.
 
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China will help us the people there want to we should graciously accept their help because we need it I'm saying my country too and the rest of the world let's do all this negative politics later after it's all over and it's time to hold countries and people to account. you know act strategically quickly and sensibly doing those things that will reach the goal that we need which is to save lives. if we can't manage to be polite to China for a little while to do that pretty pathetic
 
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China will help us the people there want to we should graciously accept their help because we need it I'm seeing my country too and the rest of the world let's do all this negative politics later after it's all over and it's time told countries and people to account. you know act strategically quickly and sensibly doing those things that will reach the goal that we need which is to save lives. if we can't manage to be polite to China for a little while to do that pretty pathetic as for the numbers the way they do them is it once someone is locked and down in the house and isolated under observation they subtract that person from the numbers.This was explained in the South China morning Post Hong Kong newspaper by the head doctor for China as well as reported on Xinhua the Chinese government propaganda news agency. The West is making a big deal oh they're faking their numbers because of this but not happening they just report them differently. Most likely to calm panic and keep social order main concern of the Chinese federal government is to not have social upheaval and a revolution that would displace them from power I would never trust them on a regular basis but right now I believe they're telling their people the truth because they see the consequence of not doing that is possibly losing power
 
BigTopCanada said:
Hey Pyroblaster I read your your post carefully can you tell me was there a statement in there that I missed that was describing anything that might save some lives or do you just not care about the people who died from covid-19 I understand that's one of the best features about American society is the way people sue each other
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Yes, not just the last post, but it may not have been entirely clear, so let me clarify. I care deeply about those who get the disease and fear for the many elderly family members I have. Especially my mother who is in her 70's and goes to work every day to serve her fellow Americans. I also am an essential worker and go to work every day, working many hours of overtime to ship supplies to my fellow Americans.
Although I may not have said it directly, social distancing helps, masks help, travel bans help. I am no big fan of the man at the top, but I do look at what he has done rather than listening to the crap he spews. Early on he restricted travel from China and was called a racist for doing so. He was threatened to be sued at the suggestion of implement a travel ban to states deemed hot spots. He was ridiculed for suggesting people cover their faces with scarfs if they couldn't find a mask. Corporations ignored his directive to stop shipping mask overseas and he had the shipments seized. He all but demanded the acceleration of vaccine trials, and signed into law the right to try for terminally ill patients. He always gets all the blame and never any credit for anything he does. The latest really shows how F'ed up our politics are in America. Congress want to pass a bill requiring the Presidents administration to come up with a plan for National testing. Something they could do themselves, not to mention they would have to approve and funding anyway.

It's easy to be an armchair quarterback and look at everything that has happened and say, oh that worked better over there, we should have done something different. Not to mention comparing a lot of these countries is really invalid. Countries vary in size, how much they travel (inside and outside of the country), their social differences, their political differences (a dictator can control easily, democracy not so much), underlying health issues, etc, etc, etc....

I know Canada welcomed our draft dodgers years ago, but I didn't realize you were the new melting pot of the world.
 
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@Canada - If China is the Humanitarian you want to believe they are, they would provide assistance freely regardless of any political issues and not just because another leader kisses their back side. And they would provide them free of charge to countries desperately in need. From my understanding these wonderful humanitarians have just agreed not to block exports. Hmmm imagine that, they want to capitalize on the worlds need from a disease that originated in their country and they did nothing to control the spread of.
 
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