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What are the Chances.......

Countries that made the decision to eradicate the virus as much as possible are the countries whose economies have recovered the most.
Please tell me how and what countries "Decided to Eradicate the Virus" and just how they did it. I've watch a fair amount of news and read a fair amount about Covid, and I never recall seeing anything or anyone talk about a way to "Eradicate" the virus. Now I did see many actions such as stay at home orders, travel bans, gathering restrictions, requirements to wear mask, etc., implemented around the world with varying degrees of success. But if someone or country has the silver bullet to "Eradicate" the virus, please enlighten us and save the world of this merciless plague.
 
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Here's the scenario that concerns me most...

The current theory on the spreading of the virus is that's it's mostly about "Aerosolized" tiny droplets. IF that turns out to be true, then we might be in for a big resurgence in the Winter (when we live much closer together indoors). That could have a huge impact on the 2021 Season.

As for product we have two opposite issues. There was a shortage of 1.4 and an overabundance of 1.3 (because so little of the inventory was actually shot). Not sure how China responds to it all.

Then there's all the Display companies, few of which were really knockin'-em-dead in a normal world as the Tons of new regulations fell upon them and stayed in business partly because the love of the game, aren't gonna make it :(
 
Many different thoughts and opinions. I personally think Sweden got it right when they didnt lock down. Their economy suffered because the EU dominates everything.

I also believe that personal agendas are replacing true science....on both sides.

This is a real disease and its vicious. Not as bad as some would have you think and we have better treatments now. The fact is people will die from it. We need to accept that. I also dont think there is a way around, only through. We cant turn off the world. We cant get the rate down to zero. This means it will continue until it burns itself out. Masks and social distancing were suppose to flatten the curve not eliminate it. The area under the curve was never going to change. What that means is that wearing masks and social distancing will only prolong things and will have negligible affect on the end result.

We know our economy is straining against the constraints. Release the constraints and it will take off. That is why 1.4 sales were off the charts. That's why truck sales have gone through the roof. Drive by a dealership and look at the lot. Inventory is low.

As for 1.4....its starting to come back into the country. I plan on stocking early and I am targeting replacing what I sold. I generally stock heavy and am guessing I average turning half my inventory every year. I predict sales will be lower next year and I have to prepare myself mentally for the first year in over a decade that the business will contract.
 
I said made the decision to to eradicate the virus. I did not say the virus was eradicated. no country has eradicated the virus but there are many countries that by taking an early full on approach have had only a tiny fraction of the cases and deaths that both Canada and the USA did. My point is that the countries that made the decision to eradicate the virus rather than live with it had less cases and deaths. The economic result of having less cases and deaths is that more people participate in the economy resulting in less harm to their economies from covid.

How is this done?
1. the leaders unite the people to believe in and get behind the fight against the virus.
2. A contact tracing app is on everyone's phone.
3. Everyone wears a mask in public, social distances and sanitizes/washes hands. Even when the covid cases in the area are gone people keep doing all these things to stop a resurgence of the virus.
4. Quarantine is tracked and enforced.
5. Areas with active cases have no travel in and out.
6. testing is sufficient to deliver the result quickly so positive cases can be identified and quarantined to limit further spread.
7. Temperature scanning cameras and personal temperature checks are used to identify people with fevers.
8. When there is a resurgence of the virus do all these things again in that area.

Sure there are some freedoms that are given up to do these things but in my opinion there is less freedom given up to do the above things than the loss of freedom that we are now suffering in North America.
 
Sorry BigTop... I'm not big on giving up any freedoms. Just not my way. I think most freedoms we've been forced to give up have been mostly unnecessary. Guess its good we live in different countries. I think Stuntborg is pretty spot on.

I do hope everyone gets to shoot (really any job effected by this) sooner than later especially the ones who's livelihood depends on it. I can do without shooting if I have to (my wife may actually perfer it) because it is just a hobby.
 
Masks, and it's So Unfortunate that this has become politicized, are a can't hurt kind of thing AND from my point-of-view, seems to have made a difference in the NE. In my state (CT) we're doing Much better that the rest of the country (infection rate below 1 and only 1-2 deaths/day for the past couple of Months...)

All you have to do is look at the hospitals here ~vs~ all the other states that chose to have relaxed mask standards. Maybe it's something else besides mask wearing and keeping the bars closed, I donno, but we're doing Something Right!

I hate the idea that, in the current polarized political climate, that mask wearers are "Sheeple" and those who choose not to are "Rugged Individualists". This stupid attitude may have done a Lot of harm :(
 
I said made the decision to to eradicate the virus.

Sure there are some freedoms that are given up to do these things but in my opinion there is less freedom given up to do the above things than the loss of freedom that we are now suffering in North America.

So if there is NO way to Eradicate the Virus, then how can a country make a decision to eradicate it? That's like saying I made the decision to become a Billionaire. I may work hard towards that goal, but there's a well thrown snowballs chance it will ever happen.

You may want Canada and the US to give up individual freedoms for the common good, but in 'Merica we have a looooong history of spilling blood to protect those individual freedoms. A high percentage of people here will not give up those freedoms too easily. You also have to understand how our dis-functional government works. A President can write an executive order to mandate everyone stay at home or wear mask, etc. But he cannot enforce it. Enforcement has to come from the local levels. (we don't have a national police force).
Basically our federal government provides guidelines, financial assistance, and support where they can, but it's up to our state Governors to implement plans for their respective states. In Kansas, our Governor tried to take away freedoms as you suggest and ordered people to not attend church on Easter Sunday. Our Governor soon got her powers stripped. In a free country, forcing people to comply only works as long as they are willing to be forced.
 
The countries that made the decision to eradicate the virus have less of it. So it would be like deciding to become a Billionaire and ending up well off financially but not a Billionaire. It is the decision to do everything possible to fight the virus that makes the difference to the result.

To be clear both my country and yours did not do this. Both Canada and the USA made the decision to "Flatten the Curve" not eradicate the virus. I get the dysfunctional nature of government in the USA but what it takes is the leaders to get on the same page and work together. It seems that if it is tornadoes, hurricanes or fires all levels of government seem to mostly all pull together but for some reason it is not the same with this virus.

I know that individual freedom is highly valued in the USA but think about how much our freedoms have been cut back by the virus. Many people's ability to earn a living has been lost some of them also lost of their business. Freedom to travel to many places has been taken away and most do not want to travel on planes or ships. Lots of things to do are gone like the PGI convention, sports and almost any other group activity. I am substantially less free than I was before this virus affected us all. I would suggest we would be more free if our countries had or even started now to try and eradicate the virus. Again I am not suggesting that it would be eradicated but that this approach will result in less virus to the point that we would be very close to fully functional rather that the current perpetual state of limited functioning of the economy and peoples lives.

None of the 8 things I listed above takes away any freedom that any USA or Canadian citizen currently has except the use of the contact tracing app on everybody's phone. The tracing app would have to be agreed to by the person installing it on their phone. This is no more an intrusion on privacy than many apps that track your location to navigate or find a store near you. It was my understanding that the order by the governor of Kansas to limit church gatherings was upheld by the Supreme Court of Kansas as have many similar challenges in other states to various other public health orders. There is established legal authority by both my government and yours to isolate and quarantine.
 
I will not give up my freedom to fight a virus. Our ancestors would be ashamed of it...never mind it isnt working for those countries either.

Pretty sure every order to limit church services has been thrown out unless it was a blanket no groups larger than 10.
 
I have to go back to what canada said. Testing is quick...I hate to tell you this but that's a pipe dream. The quick tests are inaccurate and the slow tests are well...slow. you can be infectious for days and never know it. Now if we had a 10 minute test that cost 10 cents well maybe that would work.

Temp screening is pointless. To many variables. Never mind that temp doesnt show up as a symptom till far to late.
 
Yeah... I really don't know how to respond. Pretty much everything BigTop listed is a serious invasion of privacy along with being impossible to inforce without a serious police state. Never been to Canada, maybe that is what they live with up there now. I've got a relative that's Canadian, I'll have to ask him next time I see him. Though he lives in the states now.

I have no interest in changing anyone's mind. I'll admit I generally don't appreciate when someone who doesn't live in my county tells me whats wrong with it and how to fix it. Of course I'm always open to suggestions. Though less inclined to take said suggestions seriously when most are basically track everyone, round up anyone you think is sick (or I guess stressed out as that raises temperatures), and lock them up.

Me... I like to shoot fireworks, for fun. Not for a living. Fireworks are dangerous (as is just about anything in life). I choose to do it understanding the risks. Just like every.... other.... choice... we.. all... make... every... day.

I shot a show this past 4th of July. Masks were welcome but weren't required. If you wanted to social distance you could, but most mingled.

I'll shoot next 4th of July as well. I think most people will and my opinion (of a complete amateur) is that a lot of shows will come back. As will businesses in general..no doubt this changes things but how much... we'll see.

If you want me to wear a mask in your place of business I will.

If you want me to wear a mask in a public building I will.

If you want me to wear a mask in church, I will.

I won't stop going to church.

I won't wear a mask outside in public.

I won't be vaccinated against my will.

I won't stop going on vacation.

Some freedoms willingly given up has never been an option for me... pretty much why I light up the sky every 4th of July (and every chance I get). Where I live, at least for now, I can light up whenever I want. I hope it always stays that way.
 
BigTop - Perhaps you remember differently than I, but as I recall the leaders of both our countries bowed to the expertise of the WHO and CDC that basically said this was a virus that could not be stopped, and the objective was to flatten the curve so our healthcare systems were not overwhelmed. From this perspective, one could argue both were successful in flattening the curve.
I really don't care for Monday morning quarterbacking and when one looks at different countries and their success or lack of it one should consider the myriad of variables that come in to play. Not to mention my favorite saying, figures lie and liars figure.
The things you list may help in an attempt to eradicate the virus, but I would contend all of those things have been attempted in the US with varying degrees of success. I can tell you from personal experience as an essential worker, I have worn a mask at work for months, my temp is checked the second I walk through the door, Everything is wiped down multiple times a day with disinfectant wipes and spray, there is 6' distancing tape all over the floor, gloves, face shields, etc have all been provided. I was placed in quarantine when a coworker tested positive even though I was completely symptom free.
I have also seen people completely ignore recommendations and laws by not wearing masks or social distancing in public places. I've seen law enforcement ignore executive orders and not force compliance. In a democratic government don't forget the power and authority is given to government by the people. In Kansas you are correct about what happened with the Supreme Court (of Kansas) in upholding the Governors executive action. But as Paul Harvey use to say here is the rest of the story. The people (legislatures) who make the laws, were outraged and passed legislation stripping or rather limiting the Governors ability to unilaterally make those decision in the future.
It would be a wonderful thing if it was just so easy to convince everyone to follow those 8 steps and rid the world of this plague, but it just ain't going to happen.
 
Here is a link to a list of states that have or will have a contact tracing app.

In my country a contact tracing app is available in only 1 province. Asian countries had these back in January, February and March. For instance Singapore a free capitalist country had this a contact tracing app in March. It took until June before these apps were available widely in Europe. Australia had a contact tracing app in April.

These contact tracing apps are a very useful tool in combating the spread of Covid. Why are we so slow to adopt this useful tool? We will allow our location to be tracked for navigation, finding places to shop or eat. I really don't see a problem using it to find people who may have been infected. If you don't want to be tracked somewhere turn off the location tracking or just turn off your phone if you are not tech knowledgeable enough to turn off your tracking. By the way for those that don't know if you have a cell phone you are always tracked unless it is off. It is just that the tracking is anonymous because of privacy laws. But if for instance if the police had a warrant they could go to your service provider and find your location data. In many states the police can even get this location data under certain circumstances without a warrant.

When I referred to testing sufficient to deliver the result quickly I meant test results that are returned within a day not the 15 minute tests. It is now taking several days to return test results in many places in Canada and the USA. In my province it is as much as 4 days to get a test result. A lot of movement of infected people can occur in 4 days.

Temperature screening is not useless. It is not highly accurate because it depends on the person having a fever at the time the are screened but it identifies some people with a fever. If that person then quarantines rather than continuing to be among people there is a reduction in spread. I went through the temperature screening at the Hong Kong Airport during the Sars epidemic. It consisted of 2 people with temperature screening cameras in an elevated booth in the middle of a main hallway. They were capable of screening any flow of people going past them without anyone slowing down or even paying attention to the screening.

A search on google on "Covid church gathering court rulings" will show that all the challenges to limitations on church gatherings have been thrown out. This has gone all the way to the Supreme court of the USA. There have been no successful constitutional challenges to lock downs in the courts. The only court challenges to lock downs that have been successful are procedural challenges meaning the way it was implemented was wrong not that it was unconstitutional. There also has not been a successful constitutional challenge yet to a mask mandate although there are several still in the courts. There is substantial legal precedence that will likely result in these lawsuits failing. In reality it is unlikely that any of us has the right to defy a quarantine, lock down or mask mandate. It is not rights that you have that is shaping the government response on these issues it is political pressure.

As I said before the governments of Canada and the USA have the legal powers to do all of the 8 things except the contact tracing app that I listed to effectively combat Covid. The contact tracing app requires permission of the owner of the phone.

As far as my reply to the concerns about freedoms the question is do you think everyone should have the unfettered right to spread Covid?

I am not advocating for a repeat of the ineffective lock downs and reopening such as we have seen so far in North America. I am advocating for short targeted containment of geographic areas with high Covid rates to knock down the numbers and then regulation and strong public messaging to keep people doing the things we need to to keep the virus down at low levels so we can return to our usual lives.

On another note where I live in Manitoba and the adjoining province of Saskatchewan as well as a small part of Ontario there was very low Covid through late June and most of July. I sold 1.3G shows in these areas but not anywhere else in the country where there was a higher level of Covid. Now after reopening like everywhere else the Covid came back and the business stopped. There was no mask mandate in place and people social distanced less. This same pattern has repeated again and again all across the world. You would think governments would learn. Hopefully they will soon.
 
As far as my reply to the concerns about freedoms the question is do you think everyone should have the unfettered right to spread Covid?
Do you think the vast majority of people who don't have Covid should be forced to stay at home, have their businesses destroyed, and put their livelihoods at risk, because of the fear they may get the virus?
Just out of curiosity, how long you think you would survive locked in your home if all us "essential workers" weren't risking our lives to ship you food and supplies? You want to say, it's okay to risk your life and the spread of the virus to send you food, but not to go to church or other activities they may want to do? See why this may not set too well with some people?
 
No I think governments should do the things other countries have done that have resulted in less people dying and an economy that is functioning more completely than anywhere here in North America. Other countries had who did the things I am advocating had shorter lock downs and are maintaining the opening of their economies more than in North America by doing those things. It is the half measures that our governments have done that have made the lock downs long and unsuccessful.

One only has to look at the deaths per capita to see that many other countries have been more effective in their response to the virus. The differences are exponential. The logical thing would be to look at what they did that was successful. And please to the false news crowd, although there are for sure some third world countries with inaccurate reporting there is lots of info from reliable first world countries. There is no plot by all the countries of the world to make the countries in North America look bad.

I hear a lot of proclaiming of rights but no proclaiming of responsibilities. I thought they went together.

Thank you to all the essential workers but I do not think that gives anyone the right to spread covid. The world need to function with masks on their faces, contact tracing, social distancing as much as possible and the ability to identify people who have become infected and quarantine them as soon as possible so the spread can be controlled. I wear a mask and social distance because I know that is the only way we have a hope of a functioning economy and I do not want the vulnerable people in my family to die or anyone else.
 
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Not sure if anyone saw this today but the CDC backtracked their statement that if you dont show symptoms of Covid-19, you dont need testing.
 
Yeah... that was interesting. They're all just guessing... which is fine. Just tell me it's guessing. I'm really ok with an answer being "I don't know" or "It's too early to tell".
 
It's not guessing, it's politically motivated lying. Who is it who keeps saying things like "You know testing is a double-edged sword … Here’s the bad part: When you do testing to that extent, you’re going to find more people; you’re going to find more cases. So I said to my people, ‘Slow the testing down please.’” And now the CDC is following orders and slowing the testing down.
 
So the CDC is now taking orders? Were they taking orders before when they said No Masks, then everyone needs a mask? It is guessing.
 
I agree with you that there has been a lot of guessing by governments about many things related to the virus. Masks is not one of them. Every doctor knows masks work and in many Asian countries it is common for everyone to put on a mask for outbreaks of flu and colds. The reason a doctor puts on a mask when they do an operation that opens your abdominal or chest cavity is that if they did not they would breathe bacteria into your body and cause an infection that could be fatal. The governments lied about masks to the public in the early going so the public would not hoard the limited supply of masks like they did with toilet paper. The line about the information changing was just so they did not have to say we lied to the public because at that time the best use of the limited supply was to protect the medical workers. There are many medical studies that predate the virus that show the effectiveness of masks in reducing the transmission of viral diseases. The size difference between bacteria and viruses make very little difference in the effectiveness of a mask because it is the small droplets that carry bacteria and viruses in your breath contact the material of the mask and get absorbed and then evaporate. Once the droplet evaporates the bacteria or virus dry out and die.
 
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