Premium members do not see any ads! Click here to learn more.

Lead Shooter Pay

Fuse

Fuse

Well-known member
Joined
May 2019
Messages
65
I've got no real axe to grind, just interested. It's common in Texas and Oklahoma for the large North American Display firms to hire locally licensed Lead Shooters, pay them 8%-10% of the show's retail value, e.g.- $2000. for a $20,000 display, and let that Lead recruit & pay their own crew to execute the show. The Display firm supplies insurance, gear, script, and product. Smaller, but significantly sized Regional firms are a mix in pay structure, some do the same as first example, but others recruit a seasonal staff, typically with returnee's year to year, and pay staff hourly, typically $10-$12/hour as crew, $12-$15/hour as licensed crew and/or with CDL. The latter firms don't pay on percentage of display cost.

Through our PAT club we've met folks who've shot for multiple type of firms, some have had firms and Leads providing good learning & crew experiences, some not. The horror stories are like, from the Lead: "here's the Finale layout, wire it up, let me know when you're done." As well, we've had new pyro's work July 4th Displays where the Lead doesn't supply any extra's like tents for shade, water, coolers, etc., a survival test in the Southern heat.

I'm just wondering if these Pay examples exist across the country, not just in the Southwest.
 
Last edited:
I'm assuming it's like that everywhere. The first company I started with in this business hired a local lead and the pay was a %. He then recruited his own crew. While I'm happy that got my foot in the door and into this business, they were of the mindset rookies didn't get paid for the first 3 shows but to do me a favor gave me a couple bucks for the 2nd and 3rd show. It was very unorganized and just thrown to the wolves so to speak just like you are saying. I'm not sure if that rookie pay is really a thing or not industry wide but it begs the question about workman's comp!

After 2 years of that, I found a small local company where the crew is family to the owner and will never look back.
 
10% - 15% of the show is the norm around here. Some companies provide the extras like pop ups and water for the crew, some don't.

I have leveraged the labor shortage most companies experience around the 4th, to demand a bigger cut. No one I know who shoots part time need the job or the money which puts us in the position of power. Of course I'm far outside the norm where this is concerned.

The willingness of newbies to shoot for free or a tee shirt has helped to depress compensation.... and most of them last 1 or 2 seasons. I cringe when a new hobbyist expresses a willingness to shoot for free.
 
In Texas you need 5-sign-offs as a member of a 1.3G display crew to get a 1.3G Display Operator's License(FPO). In Oklahoma you need 3-sign-off's as a member of a public display crew to get a Public Display Operator's License(req. to Lead any public display, 1.3G or 1.4G). It's almost institutionalized among big and small firms that anyone seeking sign-off's work for free on those particular displays. Some firms also try to lock up talent with non-competes for any Lead or crew. We encourage folks seeking sign-off's to attend our PAT Club Events, a more fun and engaging environment to pickup a sign-off than just crewing a professional display.

Especially for this July 4th, 2020 occurring on Saturday, Goneshootin's point about having leverage and negotiating a bigger cut is very useful. We've already seen the bigger display companies drop lower priced and more distant displays as they try to manage the unusual prospect of having enough gear , licensed shooters, and crew to perform all July 4th Season displays on one day vs. spreading them out across a week or a weekend.
 
The company I shoot for pays 12% up front which I split up equally for my crew.
 
Our company is in the minority it seems. Normally we do not go on a percentage (unless that percentage will work in the favor of our shooter somehow). We schedule a driver, lead (sometimes they are the same person, sometimes they are not), crew, and equipment for each show. We send a cooler with water/gatorade for each show, money for food (unless the lead is okay with just paying for it and getting reimbursed), canopies, etc. We almost always send extra crew to every show and are almost always done by 6-7:00 so the crew can get a break prior to shooting/tear down (and we feed dinner too). And EVERYONE gets paid. I do not believe in "paying your dues" as a newbie. While inevitably we always have a few "newbies" come the week of the 4th, we hold a training course for our regulars and "pair up" a veteran with a "newbie" on tasks at the shoot site. Typically, the "newbie" is an extra hand and not really needed in order to get the show wired up so being able to pair up and do our training there doesn't put us in danger of rushing or having someone doing a task they are not familiar with. They always work a couple of shows prior to the "big day" since the 4th is the day where our labor is stretched the thinnest. Is it perfect? No, but we are constantly trying to make adjustments, investments, etc to make things better for our crews.

We try our best to treat our employees as family. This isn't to toot our own horn, it is how things should be. We are in a very labor intensive industry and the last thing we want is disgruntled employees who aren't happy with the situation leaving and not coming back. We have an excellent retention rate from year to year and I like to think it is because of how we treat everyone. Our family of pyrotechnicians is the backbone of why we have been successful and I want to make sure they realize it.
 
We have a small display company and try to operate in a similar fashion as Coach Timmy's company. After a couple of years of burning up favors with our friends we went to a more professional model: specifically recruiting paid crew & paying everyone directly(not thru a Lead's %), supplying them with training, tents, coolers, beverages, lunch, and dinner. Our shoots are usually staffed by a combination of college kids and grizzled pyro's(who still want to get their pyro on). This combination of old & new works really well. We're not perfect either, sometimes we don't have enough crew due to weather or other delays, some folks just don't like grimy pyro work and never come back. We try to treat everyone fairly and considerately. We've also found that during the busy season, like on a 3rd shoot day in a row, it's worth the expense to get hotel rooms for crew so they don't have a long drive in the dark when exhausted. We're mostly in Texas, so some of our drives are quite long.
 
Fuse said:
We have a small display company and try to operate in a similar fashion as Coach Timmy's company. After a couple of years of burning up favors with our friends we went to a more professional model: specifically recruiting paid crew & paying everyone directly(not thru a Lead's %), supplying them with training, tents, coolers, beverages, lunch, and dinner. Our shoots are usually staffed by a combination of college kids and grizzled pyro's(who still want to get their pyro on). This combination of old & new works really well. We're not perfect either, sometimes we don't have enough crew due to weather or other delays, some folks just don't like grimy pyro work and never come back. We try to treat everyone fairly and considerately. We've also found that during the busy season, like on a 3rd shoot day in a row, it's worth the expense to get hotel rooms for crew so they don't have a long drive in the dark when exhausted. We're mostly in Texas, so some of our drives are quite long.
Click to expand...


I have had the pleasure of shooting with coachtimmy on a few club shows. One bonus of shooting with him he left out is working with one of the most skilled pyros I have met in the industry. I learned a ton from him in a very short period of time.

You mentioned the long drives. That's one factor we don't have to deal with shooting in NJ/Philadelphia area. Most shows are under an hour drive from home.
 
Fuse said:
Our shoots are usually staffed by a combination of college kids and grizzled pyro's(who still want to get their pyro on)
Click to expand...
Some of us are just weird about seeing the show in a 3 dimensional view & smelling like those guns do for the trip home. :cool:
For the information I have learned over the years, including what to do IF... Never assume always know your surroundings and re-evaluate as it starts or has just gotten dark out.
If I pass on one piece of information from all these guys I shoot for and with to a less seasoned person I have improved our shoot sites and reduced the risk of ...
 
Finding the right pay structure has been a challenge for me. Paying your shooters is one aspect, delivery, food, fuel, expendables, etc are all things that I need to budget, but they all come out of one "bucket". I also am a big believer in paying folks fairly, but that doesn't mean they all walk away with the same amount. I've toyed with a hourly approach, but I can't seem to make the numbers work out right for my needs. I choose the number of shooters based heavily on the number of cues, so maybe I could figure something out like that. I don't think there is a perfect answer for all situations, but I love to hear all the different approaches folks use.
 
We've used $15. an hour as kind of a standard in Texas, but generally round up for both small and large shows. We'll typically pay a lead 10% of the display price, but we'll pay the crew and expenses. For smaller 1.4G wedding shows, we'll just guarantee crew $150., even though it might be only 6 hours of work. For our largest 1.3G shows(>1000 cues), we'll try to recruit 10-15 crew, and typically we'll pay them $300. for the whole day, say working from 9:00am - Midnight. With our mix of personnel, college age(working for the money) and middle aged(they're not there for the pay), we just pay everyone(while in the past we'd try to exchange favors with the older folk). We build racks in the field, so we're labor intensive. As well, we don't pay travel time, so most shows are 1-2 hours drive each way if not more. Of course, we try to Finale label each effect and shell ahead of time to make things easier/faster in the field, we're not always perfect with that. Our motto is: "More Crew Is Better", so hopefully our shoots don't turn out to be death marches that turn crew off to pyro permanently.
 
The biggest problem with crew retention for some companies is under pricing of scripted e fired shows.

Example: I do a $10k 4th of July show that is hand fired with a total of 4 crew members.

Around August I do a $10k show for another company that requires 8 - 10 crew because it's an e fired pyromusical with 40 - 50 fire one mods and 20 - 30 positions.

Typically my crew walks away with $300 each for the hand fired show after 8 - 10 hours of work vs. $150 for a the pyromusical that took 12 -14 hours work....and that's only because crews spent hours pre matching before the show was sent out, otherwise we would need more crew and time.

My informal survey's are telling me that even people who love pyro don't want to work 12 hours to make $150 for more than a few shows. Audiences are not sophisticated enough to care if a show is scripted or hand fired. Sure the sponsors love the scripted shows, but audience reaction is no different. If you play music during a hand fired show most people, who BTW only see one show a year, don't know the difference between a tightly scripted pyromusical and a hand fired show with music.

I've shot more hand fired shows than pyromusicals and despite the claim of increased safety the only person I know who was injured was someone pre-matching shells prior to going out on a show. I've also noticed how shooters are more safety minded on hand fired shows. To many shooters are either not trained properly on the risk of ematching or complacent when it comes to ematch safety. After the first 3" shell is lit on a hand fired show by a new shooter they quickly understand the danger and safety remains in the forefront of there mind.

Labor shortage problems will only get worse as small to medium sized companies continue to under price shows in an attempt to be competitive by offering scripted shows when they can get the same results doing unscripted shows.
 
I am glad I live and shoot in Texas
 
Doing fireworks displays professionally has a relatively low cost of entry, except perhaps for DOT insurance(which is solveable if you hire an exisiting transportation company/driver per trip). I've only been doing professional displays for 12 years, it's probably never been easier to source wide varieties of product, gear, & firing systems, and information on getting insured & licensed is freely available. In one example, Cobra has over 12,000 clients worldwide, there are just more firing systems out there then ever before. In 12 years, I've never hand fired a professional display, and probably never will. I prefer to e-fire for artistic reasons, so do many others. We've gotten new clients who appreciated the quality of even our smallest displays, some people do notice precision. There are just industry trends away from hand firing with increased competition from smaller players vs. bigger firms. As a small company, we generally pay better and treat our crew more considerately than most of the big firms in our area, and our margins are probably less then their's, our choice. I value everyone's input into this thread.
 
Back
Top